Harvard's Lobsang Sangay on the Chinese Crackdown in Tibet

Lobsang Sangay, a research associate in East Asian Legal Studies at Harvard Law School, spoke to NEWz about the protests in Tibet that began on March 10, 2008.

As part of its crackdown, the Chinese government has arrested many Tibetans and shut down Lhasa, the capital and the site of violent riots.

In protest against the Chinese government, countries have discussed possible boycotts of the Olympics in Beijing in August.

Sangay was in Dharamsala, India, where the Dalai Lama lives, earlier this month when the protests began.

He spoke to EthnicNewz.org about the Dalai Lama, the frustrations of his fellow Tibetans, and a possible conspiracy theory behind the riots in Lhasa.

Following is the edited and condensed telephone interview with Sangay on Friday, March 28, 2008.

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To read media accounts of the uprisings in Tibet from from the official press agency of China, please visit www.xinhuanet.com.
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President Sarkozy of France has suggested a boycott of the opening ceremony of the Olympics in Beijing. Britain and other countries have not agreed. What do you think should happen?

Free Tibet is calling for a boycott of the Olympics itself.

Others, not just Pres. Sarkozy, call for a boycott of the opening OR closing ceremony.

For example, Czech Republic President Vaclav Klaus and the Polish prime minister (Donald Tusk) both have said they are going to boycott the opening ceremony.

Germany and Belgium are not ruling out a boycott of the opening ceremony.

Editor's note: German Chancellor Angela Merkel decided on March 29, 2008, after this interview took place, to boycott the opening ceremony of the Olympics in Beijing.

What do YOU think should happen in response to what has been happening in Tibet?

I just think the international community should send a STRONG message to the Chinese government in whatever form they can.

And say this kind of suppression and heavy-handedness is not tolerable. You cannot just blame (the uprisings on) His Holiness the Dalai Lama. It is the result of 50 years of this Chinese government (in Tibet).

What has been the Dalai Lama's role in the protests in Tibet over the last two weeks?

The Chinese government has alleged that he is the instigator. From what I know, there's no shred of truth (that he is the instigator of the protests).

On 10 March, I was in Dharamsala, and I watched the Dalai Lama speak. The Tibetan national uprising day is 10 March.

That day, the Dalai Lama makes his statement, which is akin to a State of the Union Address in the U.S.

But this year on March 10, he got a bad cold. He just made a statement and then quickly left for his residence because he had a cold, he said.

(Earlier) he had been giving three weeks of teaching of Buddhist precepts and tenets. I was there during all those days. He has nothing to do with what happened in Tibet.

Why did all these uprising happen if the Dalai Lama had nothing to do with them?

Why all these uprisings happened is because of the Chinese government's hard-liner policy.

(In my opinion) for the past three or four years now, Chinese government has been very harsh.

In fact, they have launched a campaign now--. They have launched it before, but more rigorously this time, to have all the party cadres and monks in monasteries condemn His Holiness the Dalai Lama.

They had to read statements - in the monasteries in front of all the monks - that condemn his name and his actions and his teachings.

This has infuriated many Tibetans all over Tibet.

Are you saying that it's this forced condemnation of the Dalai Lama that has been very harsh, and which led to the uprisings?

Fifty years of misguided policies resulted in the uprisings.

For example, the premise of China's occupation of Tibet was that they would transform Tibet into a socialist paradise.

Recently the Chinese have said that they are going to modernize Tibet AND that Tibetans would be the primary beneficiaries.

And the Tibetans have not benefitted at all from China?

The primary beneficiaries have been the Chinese. It's unfortunate that Tibetans resorted to violence - IF they did.

The reality is that all the shops and restaurants and factories that the Tibetans have been accused of burning, the majority are run or owned by Chinese.

If you look at the political power structure of the top 13 Communist Party leaders in Tibet Autonomous Region, seven are Chinese.

If you look at the judiciary, from the prefecture to the provincial level, the majority is Chinese.

Chinese government says that only 8% of the population in Tibet Autonomous Region (is Chinese).

If 8% has such enormous power politically and economically, how are Tibetans suppose to feel?

Chinese migrate to Tibet as agents, or instruments, of Chinese government policy, and then Tibetans are marginalized at every level.

Are you suggesting that the burnings and vandalism were done by Chinese, and not by protesting Tibetans?

Uh, yes, there are conflicting accounts. There are a couple of interesting things. The Economist AND tourists who were in Tibet during the time - it got into the New York Times - (say) the protesters and crackdown was from 10 March to 14 March.

However, in the afternoon of 14 March, for almost six hours, the police and the army disappeared. They just pulled back.

Suddenly 20 to 30 people came out in the streets and starting vandalizing.

These 20 to 30 people who were behind the vandalism and burnings, they were Tibetans?

The Chinese government said they are Tibetans - and it possibly could be because there ARE Tibetans who work for the Chinese government.

Why would they do that? At the same time, there happened to be people videotaping the vandalism.

The Chinese government knows the international community is watching them. They're under enormous pressure to stay restrained. You're saying that it's a set-up against the Tibetans, that it was all staged?

All I'm saying is there's one conspiracy theory.

The Chinese government should have shown restraint from 10 March to 14 March. All those monks, when they came out to protest (during that time), they were cracked down on VERY HEAVILY.

There's BBC footage in which Tibetan monks and nuns are getting beat up. The first protest was led by 15 monks who were brutally beaten up, and they have disappeared now.

Only for six hours, on March 14, did the Chinese government show restraint. Why? Why?

But there were uprisings all over, in Gansu, for example, not just in Lhasa or in Tibet Autonomous Region.

There were people uprising in Qinghai, Gansu, Sichaun and Yunnan (provinces), many areas outside Llasa that are ALL Tibetan.

But there are no reports of vandalism, at least not from Yunnan, Qingchai, Gansu or Sichuan. Not even from the Chinese government.

The only report of vandalism that the Chinese government is showing is from the afternoon of March 14 in Lhasa.

Earlier you said the Tibetans have not been the beneficiaries of Chinese modernization in Tibet. Tibetans are largely a nomadic society. Have not many of the nomads benefitted from the modernization?

The Chinese government gave aid to Tibet Autonomous Region, (much of it) for URBANIZATION and URBANIZED areas, whereas 80% of Tibetans live in rural areas, including nomads.

Who are migrating to urban areas? Han Chinese people.

What is it that Tibetans want? Do they want Han Chinese out of Tibet?

When you say "want," you assume that Tibet belongs to China, that Tibetans want some charity or generosity from China or Chinese government.

If you go by history, Tibetans really don't "want." There is no question of wanting because it's Tibet and that is where Tibetans are supposed to live.

What would Tibetans like to happen?

His Holiness the Dalai Lama wants genuine autonomy within the framework of the Chinese constitution.

The younger generation, the more nationalist Tibetans, are saying that this approach (using) dialogue is not working. They're saying we should go independent. That is the reason why the revolts (since March 10, 2008) have happened in Tibet.

We want the (exiled) Dalai Lama back and our freedom.

What do you think about the accounts coming from Chinese government about the extent of the protests?

The fact of the matter is that the uprisings happened in 50 different places. Lhasa is just one of those 50 places where revolts took place.

In Lhasa too, from the 10th to AT LEAST the 15th of March, and even yesterday (Thursday, March 27, 2008), there were some protests in Jokhang Temple [where about 30 monks, some reportedly crying and who weren't scheduled to meet media, spoke to journalists anyway who had been on a controlled press tour of the Chinese government].

So for six days, there were protests and uprisings. But the Chinese government (in my opinion) wants to focus only on the six hours of March 14.

(If you include the disturbances that began as far back as March 10) in Lhasa, there have been crackdowns, arrests, imprisonments and (even) deaths.

If you go online to Google, you can find that monks have been killed and see photos of monks and lay people with gun shots.

If you go to Tibet.net, you'll see there were at least 40 people confirmed dead as of two days ago (Wednesday, March 26, 2008), with the names, ages, and places (of death).

Are you using Tibet.net as your source for these deaths and what else has been happening in Tibet?

Oh no. Tibet.net is (just) one of the sources. There are many other sources - TCHRD.org (Tibetan Centre for Human Rights and Democracy) and many others.

How can you be sure about the accuracy of these Tibetan sources, since Llasa has been shut down and closed to media?

Those people (who run these Tibetan Web sources) have direct contact with people – in Tibet.

They have cell phone contact, particularly with the monasteries, Internet, and all kinds of communication.

India has almost 30% of the population of the Tibet - these 30% are those who fled Tibet in the last 10 to 20 years. They have immediate family members in Tibet.

Tibetan organizations are very experienced (in making sure their collected information is accurate) because they have participated in many United Nations conferences - and they know that unless you verify your information, you don't put it on your Web site or (else) later you will lose your credibility.

What else would you like to say?

The issue of Tibet is not one man, the Dalai Lama. In 1982, he rejected a political position (because) he is not interested in political power.

He is interested in the welfare of Tibet.

If you Google, you will see that there have been Chinese scholars and lawyers, in an open letter to President Hu Jintao, saying that Chinese government should recognize Dalai Lama.

You've traveled and lived in different continents and countries. What is home now?

My home is always Tibet.

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Source: EthnicNewz.org

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